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Sunday, December 4, 2011

HULK VS JUGGERNAUT

HULK VS JUGGERNAUT

THE DEFINITIVE WRITE UP ON THE BIGGEST OF THE BIG AND THE BADDEST OF THE BAD



By
John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino


In the annals of comic history, very few names can invoke intimidation and fear like The Incredible Hulk and The Unstoppable Juggernaut. That is because they are both at the top of the food-chain when it comes to total mass-monsters with tremendous raw physical strength and pure high-end durability. Their levels of physical prowess is so far off the charts that they have become the standard in the comics world. Despite what even obsessive fanboys think of them personally, these two brutes will always be in their conversations when talking about the subjects of strength and durability. That is because they are the hypothetical "irresistible force" and the equally theoretical "immovable object". And regardless of the occasional low-end showings to fit a story or situation (something writers do to all characters), these two forces of nature are widely considered the "be all, end all"  prime examples of the comic terms "brick" or "team-buster." That is because their respect is legendary as we read it all the time in comic after comic, "My god, he hits almost as hard as the Hulk!!" or "I can't believe anyone could do that tthe Juggernaut!"  Yup, when either one of them shows up you can bet the Avengers will be calling in their most powerful members because very few characters have ever garnered as much awe and respect as the Hulk and the Juggernaut.

Despite the crazy intrigue of this match up today, it really didn't take form until the mid 1990's. That was almost twenty years after the first and only time they clashed in The Incredible Hulk #172 (Feb. 1974). Even the letters page in The Incredible Hulk #176 (June 1974) when discussing the issue surprisingly didn't really mention anything about their immortal clash. And even the writer of this historic issue, Tony Isabella said this to me about it; 
"I'm amazed that this is such a big deal. For me, it was one of several "bail out the schedule" jobs I did for Marvel and I didn't always take credit for them. I scripted it in two days over the weekend. I might not even have seen it again until it was published as I didn't always get a chance to proof read my own work." 
I always believed it was because "Hulk vs Thing", "Hulk vs Wolverine" and "Hulk vs Thor" were so classic, heralded and in demand (plus the Juggernaut was more of an X-Men villain) that comic fans and writers just pushed this match up into the background and went onto the more popular ones. Yes, it's hard to imagine such a cataclysmic rivalry would only be mentioned or acknowledged in just ten issues from 1974 to 1993 until they fought again:

* The Incredible Hulk #200 (1976)
* The Incredible Hulk Annual #7 (1978)
* The Amazing Spider-man #229 (1982)
* The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #5 (1983)
* The Incredible Hulk #314 (1985)
* The Uncanny X-Men #194 (1985)
*Marvel Fanfare #29 (1986)
* The Mighty Thor #412 (1989)
* The Incredible Hulk Annual #16 (1990)
*Avengers West Coast #64 (1990)

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #5 (1983). This was 1 out of only 10 issues that acknowledged the Hulk and Juggernaut as adversaries or compared them in an almost 20 year span.

(I'll also have to give shout outs to a Presto Magix Hulk Transfer Game (1978) that had Juggernaut attacking the Hulk on the cover of it and the Spider-man and his Amazing Friends cartoon episode "A Firestar is Born" (1982) where the X-Men guest star and they all fight the Juggernaut. What makes this interesting in the comparison between the two brutes is that the Juggernaut although voiced by William Marshall for dialogue, had the same stock grunts as the Hulk did in his Animated Series at this time voiced by Bob Holt)

Juggernaut started reaching all new levels of popularity being associated with Wolverine and the X-Men in the 1990's. He now begins to feature more prominently in Marvel titles, even starring in a one-shot as well as cartoons, toys, posters, video games, etc. because lets face it, Juggernaut was cool as hell! He was a big and nasty individual who got what he wanted, when he wanted it. He was one of the roughest and toughest men on the planet, who knew it and enjoyed it. How could you not love the guy? The Hulk was always the legendary "most powerful being walking the face of the earth" tormented by the world around him. But that Hulk was long gone and a new Hulk of the 90's was walking around (thanks to writer Peter David) who comic fans would come to call the "Professor" Hulk. This Hulk incarnation was much more handsome, intellectual and wise-cracking than ever before (plus he had a habit for always wearing boots and a stupid belt...UGH!!). But, most importantly, this Hulk had lost his savage-edge. He was way too analytical and docile to get madder and stronger and somehow he would bleed all the time until his healing factor power would kick in and put him back together again...UGH!! His personality was so different than before; he had a bunch of friends, was reluctant to fight, always thinking things through and so emotional that he cried like a baby all the time...UGH! To tell you the truth, I HATED this Hulk and all the changes Peter David made to the Hulk's mythos that unfortunately happen to stick and ruin the character forever. This was a new Hulk that Marvel advertised to the masses and this Hulk was not the one I wanted to remember.

The "Professor" Hulk incarnation of the 90's did more damage to the Hulk-mythos than most people realize. He was nothing like the "Savage" Hulk of the previous years. Just looking at this picture, you can clearly see why people began to doubt his dominance in the Marvel Universe (not to mention, suffering a bunch of embarrassing defeats against lesser opponents such as Dr. Octopus??). With a boast in popularity, Juggernaut was primed and ready to take the mantel as "The most powerful being on Earth"...and with this Hulk on the scene, there was no doubt in my mind that he could do it.

But still, the curiosity factor was always there. Both brutes at their best wrecked other characters and caused so much destruction that they were very comparable. You couldn't help but ask; Who was truly physically superior Hulk or Juggernaut? Was the Hulk really the strongest one there is when compared to the Juggernaut? Was Juggernaut really unstoppable when compared to the Hulk? It was all so intriguing to comic fans.

A letter from The Incredible Hulk #183 (1975). As you can see, just about no one is going to match the "Savage" Hulk of this time period in pure physical strength...not even the Juggernaut.

A letter from The Incredible Hulk #424 (1994). With Juggernaut riding high on the wildly popular X-Men coattails during the 90's and with Peter David's Hulk run in full effect starring the "Professor" Hulk, fans had a real argument on who was the stronger of the two. As you can see some of Marvel editorial claim it's the Juggernaut that has superior strength and many people agreed with them.

But as you can see here in the same issue of The Incredible Hulk #424 (1994), they change their minds and call the Juggernaut one of the strongest beings on Earth and urge on the debate of his strength compared to the Hulk's strength. This clearly shows that even the editorial department at Marvel had no idea who was the stronger character.

But it was the coming of The Marvel Superheroes arcade game by Capcom in 1995 that would take the mythos of "Hulk vs Juggernaut" and change it forever in the eyes of the public. After this game hit the world, it brought along a bunch of new controversies and debates to this match up. Now it was more than who could beat who, it was also who is bigger than who?

For many years they have been very comparable in size and mass and always drawn that way; the Hulk was listed at 7 feet tall and weighing 1,040 pounds and Juggernaut was 6 feet 10 inches and weighing 900 pounds. As this new "Professor" Hulk incarnation, the Hulk was even bigger at 7 feet 5 inches and weighing 1,150 pounds. And when this "Professor" Hulk tangled with the Juggernaut in some recent issues, The Incredible Hulk #402-404 (1992/1993), artist Gary Frank clearly drew the Hulk the bigger of the two. But the Capcom designers took it upon themselves and decided to make the Juggernaut much more massive and devastating in this video game than the "Professor" Hulk was (and much more fun to play I might add). But what was also strange is that the Juggernaut could "power up" and increase his strength and durability even higher while the Hulk could not. Although the Hulk could do a lot of damage with his moves in his own right, one-on-one the Hulk got his gamma-butt kicked just about every time by the Juggernaut.

Now why does this game have anything to do with the real "Hulk vs Juggernaut" mythos in the comics? Because this game became incredibly popular on a world-wide scale. It changed the perception on how people looked at the Hulk and Juggernaut not only in strength and power, but also in size and mass (plus Marvel artist were occasionally drawing Juggernaut looking well over 10 feet tall in some comics. And in the Capcom  X-Men: Children of the Atom (1994) fighting game where Juggernaut was first introduced in this video game series, he was already developed to be looking incredibly huge and dwarfing all the other characters). Since the majority of the mainstream audience would rather play video games than read comics or any Marvel Handbook for that matter, this video game would influence and educate them. And it did! Now the response to who was truly the biggest and baddest Super-Heavyweight in the Marvel Universe was open for debate.

The Marvel Superheroes Arcade Game by Capcom from 1995. The game that truly changed the appearance of the Hulk and Juggernaut forever to the public.

 Capcom made the Juggernaut look like a huge massive tank! In this screen shot you can see the difference in the sheer size and mass the Juggernaut has over the Hulk. It sure wasn't like this in the comics, but the Capcom designers and mainstream audience could care less about that. 

Here is a screen shot of the Juggernaut "Powering Up!" and is ready to pound on the puny Hulk with his increased strength and durability. This game showcased the Hulk with no anger increasing powers and to tell you the truth, since this is the silly "Professor" Hulk sporting that embarrassing belt buckle, I don't blame them. 

Capcom spawned more sequels to their Marvel vs Capcom video game series (up until  Marvel vs Cacom 2: New Age of Heroes in 2000) and they did make the Hulk more powerful with each new release eventually matching the Juggernaut (he always stayed the same size). But the damage was already done. All the influence that occurred from this video game and the Juggernaut's rise to fame in the 90's was what changed the perception of the "Hulk vs Juggernaut" rivalry forever. To be honest, I have to say more people who never picked up a comic were leaning towards Juggernaut as being the stronger and more powerful of the two and I couldn't blame them. As for the hardcore comic collector, no one really knew who was bigger or stronger and fanboys from both sides made their claims of each character's superiority over the other. But there could be no doubt to the educated reader, these two brutes were evenly matched and peers until the end.

As we enter into the mid 2000's, Wolverine and the X-Men were no longer the most popular on the block with Spider-man taking back the mantel as the icon and symbol of the Marvel Universe (as it should be). And even the Marvel vs Capcom series ended and dwindled away. The only public reminder of this rivalry was at the Hulk Roller Coaster Ride at the Islands of Adventure in Orlando, Florida. While you waited in line, the screens above would show a short animated feature of the Hulk fighting the Rhino. But before the Hulk and the Rhino clash you got to see a few of the Hulk's rouge gallery of villains and Juggernaut makes an appearance.


A view of walking through the line to the Hulk Roller Coaster in Orlando Florida. You can see all the screens on the wall that show an animated Hulk short that features a glimpse of Juggernaut. For a while, this was the only reminder to the masses of Hulk and Juggernaut as adversaries.


Shortly after this, Juggernaut wasn't even a villain anymore in the comics. During his streak to fame, Juggernaut became such a likable character that creators had to make him a good guy. Courtesy of a ruse engineered by Juggernaut's friend Black Tom Cassidy to destroy the X-Men, Juggernaut allies himself with the team and then eventually official joins them. The Juggernaut would reform and join other teams from time to time. Now Juggernauts origin grows deeper as stories reveal that Marko is only the most recent of a series of incarnations of Cyttorak's avatar, with each battling a challenger to the death for the right to retain the entity's power. And to be granted the full-power of the gem of Cyttorak, Marko must do his bidding as the Juggernaut. This seemed to explain the height and weight difference that Juggernaut now has because when he doesn't have full-power he is smaller (at his old listed statistics) and when he is at full-power he is now officially listed at being 9 feet 5 inches and weighing 1,900 pounds. So I'm guessing that Juggernaut is now considered bigger than the Hulk...right? 

Well, maybe not because when Juggernaut fought the "World War" Hulk in their most recent showing, Juggernaut was at full-power and they both looked about the same size to me (it's even rumored that the "World War" Hulk incarnation is listed at 8 feet 8 inches and weighing 2,400 pounds, so take this as you may). I'm sure artists have their own interpretations of each the Hulk's and Juggernaut's muscle mass and could care less what any Marvel Handbook has to say. So I guess we'll never know.

Despite the arguments on the actual size and mass of the Hulk and Juggernaut, they are both relatively comparable to the other mass-monsters in the Marvel Universe.
 
Today, Hulk and Juggernaut don't seem to have as much of a grudge as they did back in their heyday. With Juggernaut liking his new life as a good guy despite his smaller size and lesser power there's almost no point for them to fight (it would just be a lopsided win for the Hulk and no fanboy wants to see that). Seeing the Juggernaut walking around destroying things and doing petty crimes at full-power is going to be a rare occurrence (such a shame).

But tomorrow is another day, and with another day will come another comic and the constant evolution of these characters. And fanboys know with another comic comes eventually another "Hulk vs Juggernaut" slugfest that will inspire many more questions, controversies, debates and of course, capture our imaginations. Isn't that why we love these rivalries and funnybooks in the first place?

Enough background, let's see the combatants...


TALE OF THE TAPE


Name: Hulk

Height: 5’9 ½” (Banner), 7’ (Hulk)

Weight: 128lbs (Banner), 1,040lbs (Hulk)

Real Name: Robert Bruce Banner

Origins: Gamma bomb explosion at Desert Base New Mexico

Home Base: Earth

Nicknames: Green Goliath, Green-Skinned Goliath, Jade Jaws, Annihilator, Captain Universe, Joe Fixit, Mr. Fixit, Mechano, Green Scar, Jade Giant, The Jolly Green Giant, Green King, Holku, Green One, Eye of Rage, Eye of Anger, Harkanon, Haarg, Once-Savage, Two Minds, Professor, War, Maestro, Two-Hands, Greenskin, Gray Goliath, Mighty Bob, Anti-Hulk, Friday, Green Golem, Golem, Man-Monster, World-Breaker, Sakaarson, Nul: Breaker of Worlds, The Most Powerful Being on Earth, The Strongest One There Is 

Powers: Possesses the potential for near-limitless levels of vast superhuman strength ranging beyond the limits of virtually any other known humanoid being, depending directly on his emotional state, particularly his anger. He is extremely resistant to physical damage, psychic assaults, temperature extremes, and is completely immune to disease and poisons. He can breathe underwater, survive unprotected in space, and when injured, possesses superhuman healing, enabling him to regenerate body tissue (including internal organs) within minutes to seconds. His aging is also slowed, or may have ceased altogether, due to these regenerative properties of his gamma ray irradiated cells. His powerful legs allow him to cover about 3 miles in a single bound, but he has been known to leap into lower Earth orbit or even across continents when angry. Besides great strength, his durability, healing, endurance, and possibly speed, likewise also increase in relation to his anger levels. He can maintain this peak output for hours on end and still continue to grow even more powerful as his adrenaline levels continue to increase with no apparent limit. Unrelated to his physical abilities, he can see astral (spirit) forms normally invisible to the naked eye and can locate his place of birth; Desert Base New Mexico no matter where he is in the world via psychic bond. As Bruce Banner, he is considered one of the greatest minds on Earth. He is the foremost expert on Gamma Radiation and has developed expertise in the fields of Biology, Chemistry, Engineering, Physiology, and has a PhD in Nuclear Physics.

Favorite Expressions: “Hulk Smash!”, “Hulk is the Strongest One There is!”, "BAH!", “Nothing Can Stop Hulk!”, "The Madder Hulk gets, the Stronger Hulk gets!", “Don’t make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I’m angry.”

Incarnations: I listed the “Savage” Hulk’s stats up above because it is generally considered that this Hulk persona is the most popular and most powerful of all the incarnations. But his height, weight and powers varies to a degree depending on his current incarnation. Within each “Hulk vs Juggernaut” comic description listed below, I included which incarnation of the Hulk was present for that fight. To understand this and to see some of the other strengths and weakness each incarnation has click on the link below.




Name: Juggernaut

Height: 6'10" to 9'5"

Weight: 900lbs to 1,900lbs

Real Name: Cain Marko

Origins: Temple of Cyttorak, Korea

Home Base: Earth

Nicknames: Avatar of Cyttorak, Examplar of Physical Power, Juggie, Jug-Head, The Unstoppable One, Captain Universe, Kuurth: Breaker of Stone

Powers: The Cyttorak Gem empowers Cain Marko with magical energies and transformed him into an immortal avatar. As Juggernaut he possesses extreme superhuman strength and durability, he is also amplified by a mystical force field that grants him near invulnerability (even with the force field removed Juggernaut's natural durability proved to be sufficient enough to exchange blows with Thor), when in motion and moving forward he is considered physically unstoppable, he does not tire and is able to survive without food, water or oxygen indefinitely and is immune to all poisons, toxins and diseases.

Weaknesses: Cain must constantly do the will of Cyttorak, in which he must cause destruction and become essentially a villain to the world to utilize the full-power of the gem. When he does not meet this criteria his size and powers sufficiently decrease. Despite Juggernaut's full-power invulnerability, he is vulnerable to mental attacks, a weakness that has been exploited via the removal of his helmet. He has circumvented this weakness by on occasion wearing a metal skullcap inside his main helmet. If he loses his helmet he can recreate it by touching certain materials (as long as he possesses full-power of the gem). He has also been known to be vulnerable to certain magical items. It should be noted, that it is also possible for an opponent with a sufficient amount of strength on their own to turn his irresistibly against him by redirecting his motion so he gets stranded in a position in which he has no purchase.

Favorite Expressions: "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut!", "I'm Unstoppable!", "I'm the Juggernaut Bitch!"


THE SLUGFESTS
















The comics listed in this section is each time Hulk and Juggernaut have squared off, had words and fought each other in actual official Marvel continuity. I will also explain each encounter in detail. Unfortunately, all fights and situations are not always so clear cut and I've tried my very best to be fair, objective and unbiased about the outcome of each battle. A "MATCH UP" is considered a round within a fight or face off confrontation. Since situations can be erratic in the story, there can be multiple outcomes between opponents in a fight. I will continually list each "MATCH UP" with a result and tally it. A fight will only result in a "WIN" if the losing character is rendered unconscious, teleported away against their will or immobilized in such a fashion that they are only freed by the other combatant or an ally. There may even be cases when a character gets a victory due to interference of their teammates, partners, etc. This may not be a definitive "WIN" but it will still be tallied against the losing opponent and explained so. When a character gets an "EDGE" result, they had the advantage at the end of the fight but the opponent may still be conscious or fighting on, so it will not be tallied against him. A "DRAW" result means no one was victorious during that encounter. And a "NONE" or "UNKNOWN" result means there was no way a logical result could be given in that confrontation or situation from the two characters facing off. These results can occur for a number of reasons and will be explained in the text. At the end, I tallied up the totals so you can come to your own conclusions and be the judge to see who holds the overall edge in this legendary battle. I also spoke with a few creators to shed some light on the more controversial issues and hopefully it will clear up some of the arguments that they spark off.



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #172 (1974)
This legendary first fight between the two behemoths has been debated on in the past by fanboys. The question that always seems to come up is if the Hulk increased his strength high enough to overpower Juggernaut when he was on the Hulk's back. So to answer this lingering question I asked the issues writer Tony Isabella about the fight; 
"From what I see, the Hulk got stronger and was able to swing Juggy around by his helmet. The helmet came off. I don't think the helmet was mystically attached or anything since the X-Men removed it in their first meeting with Juggy. Without the helmet protecting his head, Juggy sustained some damage when he slammed into the mountain head first. That and the subsequent fall probably knocked him out." 
With the "Savage" Hulk locked up in a Hulk-Buster cell, the military attempts to use an experimental space-time warp transporter to transport the Hulk into another dimension where he can never do damage to the Earth again. As they turn on the transporter and manage to transport the Hulk away, at the same time it allows the Juggernaut to make his way back to Earth. Soon the Juggernaut starts hitting the walls of the cell the Hulk was in to break out. Then the military tries to use the teleporter again but its feedback causes the Hulk to reappear. The Juggernaut recognizes the Hulk and says they should escape together. The Hulk doesn't trust Juggernaut but decides to help him as they bust out of the cell and defeat the Army. After the Hulk leaps away he sees the Juggernaut cause a family to drive off a road and threaten them. This causes the Hulk to confront Juggernaut and fist start to fly. Both brutes knock each other around until the Juggernaut gets on the Hulk's back and tries to break his neck. The Hulk will rage, get stronger, grab Juggernaut by the helmet and spin him around in the air to throw him back to the Army base. But the helmet becomes loose and the Juggernaut flies into a mountain. The Hulk walks away thinking that the fight is over but Juggernaut recovers from his fall and is about to attack the Hulk again when Professor X, Cyclops and Marvel Girl show up and easily defeat him since his helmet is off. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 1  HULK: 0 - JUGGERNAUT: 0




THE INCREDIBLE HULK #402 (1992)
The "Professor" Hulk takes it upon himself to check out why acres upon acres of the rain forest are being leveled. When he gets there he gets ambushed and attacked by a huge man in plain civilian clothes. The Hulk thinks this is just a construction worker and he will keep asking this man who he is while never getting a direct answer. Not wanting to fight back, the Hulk gets knocked around until he is eventually knocked unconscious. Juggernaut takes such pleasure in this advantage that the Red Skull has to tell him to stop or he'll kill the brute. RESULT: WIN JUGGERNAUT (This wasn't a definitive "win" by any means as the Hulk questioned who he was fighting and never really fought back. When he realized it was Juggernaut it was already too late.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 2  HULK: 0 - JUGGERNAUT: 1




THE INCREDIBLE HULK #403 (1993)
With the "Professor" Hulk locked up, he finds out it was the Juggernaut who attacked him in the previous issue. Then he will taunt Juggernaut into trying to fight him without any tricks. Of course, Juggernaut steps up but the Red Skull will stop him. Soon Red Skull uses Mentallo to take control of the Hulk's mind by sending images of his greatest enemies to beat him down mentally. Juggernaut is among the enemies that attack and try to pound on the Hulk. RESULT: NONE


TALLY: MATCH UPS: 3  HULK: 0 - JUGGERNAUT: 1



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #404 (1993)
As the "Professor" Hulk was being mind-controlled by Mentallo to team with the Juggernaut to battle the Avengers under the pretense that Juggernaut is his father, Juggernaut will compliment the Hulk. Now the Hulk knows that Juggernaut can't be his father because his father would never do that. The Hulk fights the mental control by raging and attacking Juggernaut. The Hulk is now mad enough to pound on Juggernaut (knocking his helmet off in the process) and fight off the mental control. Finally the psychic backlash from the Hulk breaking free of the mind control will knock Juggernaut out as well as all the other Avengers. RESULT: EDGE HULK (While the Hulk clearly had Juggernaut hurt and humbled, it was the psychic backlash that would actually knock him out and not the Hulk's attacks.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 4  HULK: 0 - JUGGERNAUT: 1



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #457 (1997)
Enhanced by the science of the villain Apocalypse, the "Heroes Return" Hulk has become his super-powered pawn called War! Juggernaut charges and crashes into this Hulk and keeps pushing him backwards. That is until War manages to completely stop him dead in his tracks! Juggernaut cannot believe what just happened and begins to get pummeled. Soon War beats Juggernaut down and will take out his sword to decapitate him. Luckily, the Absorbing Man crashes on top of War and saves Juggernaut's life. War will then hit Rick Jones by accident and the impact sends him into a brick wall. The Hulk then comes to he senses and rips off his armor and leaps away screaming in shame. RESULT: WIN HULK (even though the Hulk got the "win" in this fight by having the Juggernaut helpless and almost beheading him, he was enhanced by Apocalypse. This cannot be considered a definitive "win" due to this advantage.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 5  HULK: 1 - JUGGERNAUT: 1



DEFENDERS #10 (2001)
The "Savage" Hulk with the Defenders are attacked by villains under the control of Orrgo. Juggernaut is among the many that attack and try to overwhelm the heroes. The battle royal will end when the spell is finally broken and the villains become free of the mind control. RESULT: DRAW

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 6  HULK: 1 - JUGGERNAUT: 1



WORLD WAR HULK: X-MEN #2 (2007)
Ever since Cain Marko refused the bidding of Cyttorak he became a de-powered Juggernaut. And now with a raging mad "World War" Hulk beating up every X-Men in sight looking for his step-brother Charles Xavier, Cain Marko knows its up to him to try and stop the brute. Marko makes a plea to Cyttorak, to amp his powers back up, ostensibly so he can rescue his step-brother. But as Marko makes an all out attack on the Hulk, he ends up getting dropped into the action still at half-strength. The Hulk will pound on Marko unmercifully and decisively. RESULT: WIN HULK (Although the Hulk totally humbled Juggernaut in this fight, he was not up to full-power.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 7  HULK: 2 - JUGGERNAUT: 1



WORLD WAR HULK: X-MEN #3 (2007)
This issue has some controversy to it and has been debated on by fanboys. Did the Hulk stop Juggernaut's forward movement or was Juggernaut slowly pushing the Hulk back when they were locked up? A panel shows a close up of their feet but it is still hard to judge so I asked writer Christos Gage about it to end this debate once and for all, this is what he told me;
"Hulk stopped him for a moment...whether he could have stopped him for long, I don't know. More likely the ground would have caved in first, which is why Prof X yelled at him to stop. Hey, I'm not gonna take sides here!" 
So in conclusion to what Gage said, the Hulk did stop the Juggernaut's forward movement with his physical strength and redirected it's irresistibility in another direction (in this case down) to actually give the Juggernaut pause. So that debate ends with another one beginning...How long can the Hulk stop the Juggernaut for? I guess we'll save that for another time because now lets see the issue...

With the "World War" Hulk continuing to pummel the rest of the X-Men, Marko asks Cyttorak why he let him fight the Hulk at half-power. We learn that Cyttorak wants his avatar back to being vicious, and realizing on some level that's what Marko wants as well. Cain agrees to go back to being the one-true Juggernaut at full-power, armoring back up and charging at the Hulk for a battle of the century! The two behemoths go back and forth until they are in a deadlocked stand off pushing against the other. Soon Professor X comes running out and yells at the two brutes to stop their pushing match because the extreme force they are using is breaking the foundation of the school and it will collapse. The Hulk will take this moment of hesitation and sidestep Juggernaut who topples forward and gets pushed in the back by the Hulk which sends him running wildly into the bottom of a lake. RESULT: WIN HULK (While this is not a definitive "win" for the Hulk by any means, he did remove the distracted Juggernaut from the fight long enough to encounter Professor X and set things straight with him.)

TALLY: MATCH UPS: 8  HULK: 3 - JUGGERNAUT: 1



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #602 (2009)
This is an interesting match up between the Hulk and Juggernaut because this fight has more to do with "Bruce Banner and his son Skaar vs the Juggernaut." But since Bruce Banner is essentially the Hulk in his normal form, this issue counts and makes the list (I know it's confusing so please bear with me).

Bruce is training Skaar to take on the Hulk when he eventually turns into him (Yes, the Hulk's son wants to kill him). So, in preparation Bruce has Skaar take on the Juggernaut to test his skills. But Skaar shows no interest in the fight so Juggernaut attacks Bruce and starts to pound on him. Bruce uses his electronic shield to save his life from Juggernaut's assault. Soon Skaar attacks Juggernaut and they battle it out while Bruce yells out directions on how Skaar must fight him. Eventually Skaar tricks Juggernaut and at the last moment hits him so hard that he flies into space. It ends with Skaar and Bruce in a comic shop looking up Conan to see why the Juggernaut called him that. RESULT: NONE (Or it should actually say Bruce Banner and Skaar with the "win" because they used teamwork and tricks to defeat Juggernaut. But in truth, this has to be a "no contest" when talking about "Hulk vs Juggernaut" because even though Bruce Banner was involved in this fight, the Hulk wasn't ever present...or was he...who knows.)

FINAL TALLY: MATCH UPS: 9  HULK: 3 - JUGGERNAUT: 1



OTHER BATTLES






The Hulk and Juggernaut have fought a few times in non-cannon stories. I've noticed throughout the years that both Hulk and Juggernaut fans often make arguments showing these comics to make claims to their debates. But truth be told, despite some interesting stories, these issues don't count. I see them as writers interpretations of “Hulk vs Juggernaut” battles without continuity restraints so they always have fun twists of “What could have been.” Listed here are the best of the best of the Hulk and Juggernaut battles that occurred outside of actual Marvel continuity.



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #200 (1976)
The "Savage" Hulk (with a special helmet on that gives Bruce Banner's brain control of the Hulk) battles illusions of his greatest foes inside the infected mind of Glenn Talbot. There, an illusion of Juggernaut is among the many foes that attack and get defeated by the raging Hulk (who has long destroyed the helmet) which eventually frees Talbot from the control.



THE INCREDIBLE HULK #314 (1985)
Doc Samson gets word that the "Savage" Hulk has returned from the Crossroads of Time and races to meet him in the New Mexico desert. Samson gets there first and upon the arrival of the Jade Giant, they begin to fight. As the Hulk is creaming the good Doctor, Samson pleads with the inner Banner to "try to take control!!"
The Bruce Banner personality inside the Hulk brings illusions of attacking enemies to the Hulk's mind. First, he is attacked by Juggernaut and then is replaced by MODOK. and then Rhino. As Rhino runs right through the Hulk like a ghost and then the brute realizes that they aren't real. After few more adversaries attack, the Hulk doesn't even bother fighting back.
Now Doc Samson has recovered enough to address the Hulk again. The Hulk thinks that Leonard is a ghost now as well and won't fight him. The Doctor takes advantage of the situation and sucker-punches the Hulk, knocking him out.



AVENGERS WEST COAST #64 (1990)
While this issue claimed that Stevie had a run-in with the Hulk and they both defeated the Juggernaut with his gem of Cyttorak Ruby in a story he used for "show and tell". It was said that the story hadn't been told yet (in the comics) so it is unknown what truly happened or if it even happened at all. 
 


DRAKES MINI-COMIC #3 (1993)
In this promotional mini-comic we see a glimpse at how some artist interpret Juggernaut's size (here he is looking about 10 feet tall) which dwarfs the "Professor" Hulk. In the comic, the Hulk teaming with Wolverine and Spider-man can't even hurt the Juggernaut as they all get knocked around. But once Spidey and Wolverine use tactics to remove the Juggernaut's helmet (and despite his plea to surrender), the Hulk will step up and knock him out with a huge haymaker!!



SPIDER-MAN MAGAZINE #7 (1994)
Once again the Juggernaut is drawn to look like a giant (about 10 feet tall) and dwarfs the "Professor" Hulk. In this story, Juggernaut wants to have the solar collector to boost his strength, but it's up to the Hulk and Spider-man to stop him. After a short battle the Hulk will knock Juggernaut out with a huge punch. Eventually Juggernaut wakes up for round two and while the Hulk has to make sure the solar collector doesn't explode, it's up to Spider-man to take him on alone. Spidey tricks Juggernaut into crashing into the solar collector and then knocks it on top of him for the victory.


SAVAGE HULK: ONE-SHOT (1996)
Stories that include some of the Hulk's greatest rouges. In this tale with the "Professor" Hulk standing trial, he gets attacked by just about every enemy he's fought in the past. The Juggernaut is among the villains that attack and brawls with the Hulk.



MARVEL ADVENTURES #14 (1998)
A dying Juggernaut seeks out Dr. Strange for the Cyttorak crystal to bring him back to full-strength. As he takes it from the magician a portal to Cyttorak's dimension opens up and Bruce Banner will tackle Juggernaut through it. When they land Juggernaut powers up and becomes more powerful than ever. Dr. Strange who is now in astral form fights Juggernaut until he weaves a spell to change Banner into the "Savage" Hulk. Both brutes then have a huge back and forth fight until the Hulk punches Juggernaut near a Cyttorak ruby which he tries to absorb to give him even more power. But Juggernaut will get overloaded with power and explodes and then dissipates to another place.



MARVEL ADVENTURES: THE AVENGERS #7 (2007)
With the Juggernaut looking for a man who double crossed him, he is met up by the Avengers. After Captain America, Spider-man and Iron Man are defeated Juggernaut is now faced with the Avengers strongest member, the "Savage" Hulk! The two behemoths trade blows with Juggernaut eventually knocking the green brute back. Wolverine would then attack and fair no better. Storm, watching all this tries a different approach and begins to talk the Juggernaut down. It almost works but the Hulk roars back into battle, knocking himself and Juggernaut off the clifftop into the sea below. Soon the Hulk swims to shore asking where the Juggernaut is and he is nowhere to be found.



MARVEL ADVENTURES: THE AVENGERS #8 (2007)
The Avengers battle Loki, who has enlisted the help of some villains including the Juggernaut. As the "Savage" Hulk battles Iron Clad of the U-Foes, Wolverine locks up with Juggernaut and doesn't fair very well against him. Eventually, the Hulk will help out his teammate and smack Juggernaut around with Iron Clad's limp body. Soon everything get's broken up as Loki escapes.



MARVEL ADVENTURES: THE INCREDIBLE HULK #10 (2008)
Bruce Banner is in South Korea looking for the Amulet of Cyttorak to see if it can stop him from changing into the "Savage" Hulk. He is met by an American guide, who happens to be Cain Marko in civilian clothing. He is willing to show Bruce, Rick Jones and his pet monkey, Yoink the way for a price. Eventually they find the Shrine of Cyttorak and the amulet, which Marko takes for himself! He transforms into the Juggernaut and now wants to destroy the amulet so there won't be anyone to stop him. But before he can, Banner tries to grab it and is easily tossed aside and while Juggernaut is distracted, Jones and his monkey steal the amulet from him. As Juggernaut chases them to retrieve it, Banner changes into the Hulk and the battle begins!

Juggernaut's first blow sends the Hulk crashing out of the caverns and when the Hulk gets up and attacks again he cannot stop the Juggernaut's forward movement and is pushed back. Juggernaut will then land another tremendous blow which sends the brute flying off the mountain. Soon Jones and Yoink put the amulet around Juggernaut's neck and it magically binds him helpless. But the Hulk comes attacking again, fueled with rage, he punches the amulet that has Juggernaut trapped, destroying it and freeing him. Juggernaut thanks the Hulk for his luck and they brawl again. While the Hulk punches Juggernaut over and over and has no way of hurting him, Juggernaut will begin to push the Hulk back again. But this time the Hulk picks Juggernaut up and throws him back into the cavern causing a massive avalanche. The Hulk will grab Rick and Yoink and leap away to safety. Next time we see Juggernaut, he is buried alive in the cave trapped but slowly he begins to move.



1985 #2 (2008)
Small Town America, 1985: Toby Goodman is a thirteen year old boy who weathers the storm of his parent's separation, his mother's choice of new boyfriend and his father's indolence by immersing himself in the minutiae of the Marvel comics universe. Toby soon becomes possessed with this world and his humdrum existence takes a turn for the bizarre when he spots a creature that resembles The Red Skull, gazing out from a window of the local nexus of suburban folklore, the abandoned Wyncham house. Before long, more characters from the pages of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's fictional universe begin showing up in the flesh. With Toby now confronting the Hulk with Bruce Banner's mind, the brute asks if he has seen the Juggernaut. Soon the Juggernaut tackles the Hulk from behind and a brawl ensues with Toby watching in awe and then eventually running off.




MEDIA

Listed in this section is every time the Hulk squared off against Juggernaut in a movie, cartoon, video game, magazine covers, etc. Now this category might not be in actual comic continuity but it plays a very important role in how the mainstream audience views each character and where they stand when facing off with one another. It should be noted that it was the media that had more of an impact on the "Hulk vs Juggernaut" mythos than even the comics did.


THE INCREDIBLE HULK: RAMPAGE ON MAIN STREET PRESTO MAGIX GAME (1978)
While this is not just a "Hulk vs Juggernaut" game. There is a Hulk and Juggernaut (as well as a bunch of other characters from Hulk-lore including Wolverine) transfer piece that you can use to create a scene and  have them fighting each other. I should also point out that Juggernaut is attacking the Hulk on the cover of this game making it very uncommon for the times.



MARVEL SUPERHEROES VIDEO GAME (1995)
The arcade fighting game released by Capcom that brought the "Hulk vs Juggernaut" rivalry into the public eyes and started a whole mess of controversies and questions especially when talking about their size and strength.

The game is loosely based on the Infinity Gauntlet storyline, with the heroes and villains battling each other for the Infinity Gems. The main antagonist is Thanos, who steals whatever Gems the player had collected (at that point, all but the sixth gem, Mind) and uses them against the player, but with each gem having a strange, new effect when used by Thanos.

The game played similar to Capcom's previous Marvel-licensed fighting game, X-Men: Children of the Atom, but with a more simplified use of the super combo gauge, and the addition of the Infinity Gems. Each Gem could be activated in battle, giving the user a different power for a few seconds. In addition, each character had a Gem that he had a special affinity for, and would get additional abilities whenever he activated it.

Juggernaut is a total powerhouse in this game and when used correctly, rarely will he be defeated. The "Professor" Hulk, who can do some tremendous damage in his own right is a far second choice. Never has "Hulk vs Juggernaut" been so lopsided before.


X-MEN THE ANIMATED SERIES (SEASON: 3 EPISODE: 46 "THE JUGGERNAUT RETURNS" 1995)
While storming the mansion to find his step brother Charles Xavier, Juggernaut is met up with it's defenses. He get's attacked by a Hulk robot that is easily destroyed and defeated. Soon Juggernaut's life is at risk when someone else uncovers the Cyttorak ruby and claims the powers of the Juggernaut and uses it to pick up girls. Eventually Professor X and the X-men help Juggernaut out and stop this rouge-Juggernaut. Due to the X-Men's help, Juggernaut leaves them in peace and walks away.


MARVEL VS CAPCOM: CLASH OF THE SUPERHEROES VIDEO GAME (1998)
This was the third game in the Marvel vs Capcom series. A new twist featured back up characters that would assist your team. While the Hulk is a playable character with improved strength and durability from the previous game, Juggernaut was only an assisting one. And even though he cannot engage the Hulk fully, he can still attack the Hulk while assisting an opposing team with his headcrush maneuver. It was kind of a let down because fans would have preferred to see Juggernaut as a usable character to engage this newly improved Hulk as well as other characters in this game.

The game takes place within the Marvel comic continuity, as Professor Charlies Xavier calls out for heroes to stop him before he merges with the consciousness of Magneto and becomes the being known as Onslaught, the final boss. The game was developed in late 1997 and first released in January 1998 to both the arcade and then to home game systems.



MARVEL VS CAPCOM 2: NEW AGE OF HEROES VIDEO GAME (2000)
This is the fourth overall game in the Marvel vs Capcom series. Now Capcom simplified the controls to make the gameplay more accessible for casual players. The button configuration was trimmed down to 4 main buttons and 2 assist buttons. The game also features a different air-combo system and 3 on 3 tag, compared to the 2 on 2 tag from previous games in the series.
The game was highly anticipated upon its release and achieved criticial acclaim due to its graphics, fast action, storyline and enormous cast. The game scored and 8.8 on ign, a 91.1 on Metacritic, and has frequently been called one of the best fighting games ever by Gametrailers, particularly by the Screwattack staff. The only complaints seemed to be the ability to stack teams as well as the jazz soundtrack, but many reviewers managed to overlook it due to the game's impressive achievements.
The "Professor" Hulk was even more improved in this game than any other previous and seemed to balance out the power levels between him and Juggernaut. Both could take and deliver huge amounts of damage with the Hulk possibly being the favorite now with his quicker movements and more range. But Juggernaut of course, still had the size over him.


SUPERHERO SQUAD SHOW (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 5 "ENTER DORMAMMU" 2009)
This episode starts with Hulk and the Superhero Squad fighting it out with Juggernaut and Sabertooth to take back the infinity frackles. Thor and the Hulk make some attacks on Juggernaut but he can take it (to the Hulk's surprise) and tries to escape through the Great Wall where he is ambushed by more heroes. Soon a magical ray shoots into the hole of the wall and some the heroes (except the Hulk) into wacky things. When everything turns back to normal and the heroes and villains (now with Dr. Doom) square of we see it turns out to be Dr. Strange!



SUPERHERO SQUAD SHOW (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 6 "A BRAT WALKS AMONG US" 2009)
A bratty 3-year-old named Brynnie Bratton decides to hire the Heroes for Hire (consisting of Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and Misty Knight) to help her find her father, but is also wearing a tiara with a fractal making her invincible. The heroes and villains must put up with her superpower temper-tantrums while Falcon helps Heroes for Hire track down Brynnie's father and bring her under control. There is a small clash between the Hulk and Juggernaut in football-like fashion here. But it's the Thing who ends up hitting (and hurting) Juggernaut to make him lose his handle on the fractal.



SUPERHERO SQUAD VIDEO GAME (2009)
While this game has two options of play; Adventure Mode, where Hulk along with the other members of the Superhero Squad go through various levels defeating waves of enemies and bosses (where Juggernaut is a boss) to eventually fight the final boss Dr. Doom. The other option is Battle Modewhere you pick one character to use in free-for-all fighting action. Players defeat their opponents by depleting their health or knocking them out of the arena! Hulk fighting Juggernaut has never been cuter than this!



SUPER HERO SQUAD SHOW (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 26 "THIS AL DENTE EARTH!" 2010)
Galactus arrives in Super Hero City to devour the Earth. Since they are all over-matched, the Super Hero squad must convince Dr. Doom to help and reforge the Infinity Sword to help defeat this Cosmic-God. When the Hulk and the other heroes crash Doom's pad, they are confronted by Juggernaut and the rest of the villains. Before anything can happen, Iron Man decides to just take the frackles from Doom and fly off.



SUPERHERO SQUAD SHOW (SEASON: 2 EPISODE: 38 "TOO MANY WOLVERINES" 2011)
The episode starts off with the Juggernaut rampaging through the city and then the Super hero Squad shows up to stop him. They "Hero Up!" and then attack with the Hulk charging the running Juggernaut to no avail. Juggernaut will continue to pound on the Squad and destroying the city until Firestar shows up and melts the street around his feet holding him there. He grabs a streetlight and swings it at all the heroes until Wolverine is thrown by Reptil in dinosaur form and uses his claws to cut it down to size. Iron Man will then blind Juggernaut with a light ray as The Hulk and Thor beat him down (off screen of course) and then tie him onto a truck flatbed that hauls him off to jail.


SUPERHERO SQUAD ONLINE VIDEO GAME (2011)
This online PC game has a ton of features where Hulk and all the other Marvel heroes can be used to play. Have level games and battle minions until you meet up with the Juggernaut and other villain bosses, team up with other players online, train your heroes and interact with the entire Marvel Universe. Also there is a fun option for fighting each other in a card game style format. This game is in the style of many of the popular card games for kids, where you try to trump the card your opponent plays, or stop them from being able to put one down at all.  You’ll begin by building your deck, choosing cards with a high damage potential, or cards that might help you block your opponent’s attack.  Your chosen hero will face off in an arena with one opponent.  Each turn you have the chance to attack, block an attack, or pass if you have nothing to play.  Make your opponent lose all of the cards in his hand to win the game. With each card you play, the character on the card will enter the battle arena and perform an action.  It’s really fun to see your favorite characters attacking, blocking, or cheering their victories. When you win a game, you’ll be rewarded with a new card for your deck. Have Hulk go through the levels or fight others in a battle royal of the ages, either way this game is super fun to play!


THE MIGHTY AVENGERS LOOK AND FIND BOOK (2012)
While there is not a "Hulk vs Juggernaut" scene in this children's book, there is a double-page spread where the Hulk and the Avengers are teaming with the X-Men and fighting off some evil mutants. Juggernaut is seen battling the Beast while the Hulk struggles with Magneto. I had to include this book in this write up because even though Hulk and Juggernaut were not fighting each other, they were on opposite sides of the battlefield.




AVENGERS ALLIANCE FACEBOOK GAME (2012)
Avengers Alliance is a nod to the classic turn-based role-playing games that players have known and loved for decades. Your party will feature three members, and each member and enemy on the field will take turns performing single actions. Actions consume stamina, and range from offensive attacks and defensive buffs to item uses, stamina recharges, and more. It’s a simple enough system to understand.

While the Hulk is a character that becomes an ally and helps you on your missions, Juggernaut is a boss villain that you will eventually encounter and fight. Under the right circumstances you can have the Hulk and Juggernaut clash.


MARVEL VS CAPCOM: ORIGINS VIDEO GAME (2012)
An updated remake of the two classic Capcom fighting games for a new generation. This downloadable game includes Marvel Superheroes and Marvel vs Capcom: New Age of Heroes so Hulk vs Juggernaut is ready to go for the new age of fans.


MARVEL SUPER HEROES MAGAZINE #3 (2012)
The Hulk and the Juggernaut collide in a battle for the ages in this rivalries very first magazine cover. The actual story in this issue is a reprint of Marvel Adventures: The Incredible Hulk #10 (2008).


MARVEL HEROES ONLINE GAME (2013)
An MMO/ARPG game by Gazillion Entertainment. While not just a "Hulk vs Juggernaut" game, you can play up to 26 characters such as The Hulk, Iron ManCaptain America, Spider-man, Deadpool and Wolverine as well as 13 non-playable characters that will help you out. Juggernaut is a boss character in the game and the Hulk, as well as others can slug it out with him.


ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN (SEASON: 2 EPISODE: 14 "THE INCREDIBLE SPIDER-HULK" 2013)
While Spider-man describes the Hulk always hitting things, a short cut-scene shows the Hulk punching out  Dr. Doom and then the Juggernaut (as well as scaring a hot dog vender for not having ketchup).



  LEGO MARVEL VIDEO GAME (2013)
Once you completed level 8 in Story Mode, you unlock the level for Free Play Mode. In this mode you can go through the level again. However, this time you can use any character that you have unlocked. If you use the Hulk, he can meet up with the Juggernaut (who is the boss villain of this level), and have the two brutes brawl it out. It's also fun to team them up and destroy LEGO New York together. Seriously, this is the best superhero video game ever made...period.



MARVEL PUZZLE QUEST: DARK REIGN (2013)
This is a game for the IOS and PC. You must stop Norman Osborn and the Dark Avengers from taking control of the dangerous substance "ISO-8", by recruiting and leveling heroes and battling in match-three gameplay arenas. While Juggernaut is a boss character that can be unlocked, the Hulk and his other teammates can battle it out with him.


 
 
MARVEL DISK WARS (SEASON: 1 EPISODE: 12 "THE UNSTOPPABLE FORCE, JUGGERNAUT" 2014)
After the Juggernaut trashes Iron Man, only the power of the Hulk can stop his rampage. When Ed smashes his Hulk DISK the Green Goliath is released and the main event begins. As the Hulk attacks, the Juggernaut is able to withstand his attack and they lock up in a test of strength. As the Hulk get's angry, his strength increases and he overpowers the Juggernaut while sending him to his knee. Soon the Hulk will leap high into the air and slam the Juggernaut's helmet so hard that the vibrations knock him out. Hulk smash...



MARVEL CONTEST OF THE CHAMPIONS MOBILE GAME (2014)
A mobile fighting game with over 50 characters to choose from. You can collect favorite superheroes and villains to build your team as you battle through iconic Marvel locations. You can have Juggernaut and the Hulk fight each other or team up to battle together.


THE END??


So what's the conclusion between these two powerhouses? Even though the Hulk has the overall edge 3 to 1 in 9 official match ups, it really is a dead even draw. Because despite some controversial wins and loses to each, neither brute can claim a definitive victory over the other. I think it's because they are very similar in styles and almost exactly the same in their physical attributes. They both have the biggest egos, they both talk huge amounts of trash, they both have the same style of fighting (just keep moving forward, brawl and pound your opponents until they become nothing but meat sauce), they both never quit, they both cause trillions of dollars in real estate damage and they both put the fear of god into everybody they face

But you have to give the Hulk the edge on pure physical strength over Juggernaut (full-power or not) because that's his bread and butter and we all know; the madder the Hulk gets, the stronger he gets. Juggernaut fights with a mixture of his durability and unstoppable magic ability while fighting others. This fearsome combination puts an illusion on his physical strength when fighting top-tier opponents. While Juggernaut is immeasurably strong and a Super-Heavyweight that ranks with the Hulk (base-level), Thor, Hercules class, he is not in the rage-induced Hulk strength class. This was proven fact when the Hulk showed his superiority in strength in their first meeting in The Incredible Hulk #172 and he has shown that he is quite capable of stopping the Juggernaut's forward movement with his physical power as he did in World War Hulk vs X-Men #3 (you can't really count The Incredible Hulk #457 because the Hulk was powered up by Apocalypse in that fight). This speaks volumes because before his encounters with the Hulk, the Juggernaut was always considered absolutely unstoppable. I know many militant Juggernaut fanboys will discredit this feat in their arguments and say it was the Hulk who got pushed back (despite what the writer told me), but the debate is now there and that's what makes it so significant. And if they still have their doubts on who's actually stronger between the two; the Hulk is known as the standard of physical strength within the Marvel Universe and is advertised that way, the Juggernaut has never been regarded as such. He has always been advertised as a peer to the other Super-Heavyweights of the world and has never proven otherwise.


Hulk vs Juggernaut and who is stronger? Let Stan Lee and John Romita Jr. answer that question for you.


Who's stronger Hulk or Juggernaut? Watch this cartoon (by clicking the link below) and understand how the Hulk's power works. Many Juggernaut fanboys will argue that this is just a cartoon so it doesn't count. But this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about when Marvel advertises the Hulk as its strongest character to a mass audience. You don't see Juggernaut overpowering the Hulk do you?



Another example from the book The World According to Spider-man (2014). A strength comparison of Juggernaut and the Hulk. Is there any doubt on who is the stronger?

So who has the better durability? Both of these guys can take a ground level nuclear blast and keep on going! The Hulk has increased durability and healing with his near-limitless rage and Juggernaut has the near-limitless magic of Cyttorak to keep him invulnerable. It's so close, but you have to give the edge to Juggernaut because that's his bread and butter. I will admit that both brutes have been shown to be able to hurt the other physically on a consistent basis despite the reputation of their high-end invulnerability. But I have to give it to the Juggernaut because outside of the Hulk, he has been able to use his force-field with awesome results in other appearances. Plus his durability seems to be portrayed much more consistently than the Hulk's (which fluctuates from comic to comic and is related to his current adrenaline levels) and his invulnerability is what he is mainly know for within the Marvel Universe, so Juggernaut has the edge, and rightly should.


There is no doubt that the Juggernaut has always shown a consistency with his invulnerability throughout the years.

Looking at these facts with unbiased eyes, it's no surprise that this match up is a solid draw for now. And if fanboys want to get more extreme and talk about their super-powered-up versions like "Worldbreaker" Hulk or "Trion" Juggernaut, etc. then please argue among yourselves because I'm outta here!

And for personal reasons I want to point out that  finally the Hulk looks like his ol' savage self in the recent Marvel vs Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds (2011) video game that has returned after an almost eleven year layoff. The good part is that the horrid "Professor" Hulk is long gone and the "Savage" Hulk has taken his place! He also is one of the strongest character in the game with some great moves that do crazy damage (nobody but Galactus can beat him hit for hit). The gameplay, graphics and technology has never been better. The downside is that the Juggernaut was not included within the 46 characters in this game. And I got even more upset when they looked passed him again when Capcom released an improved version of this game (with the Hulk now becoming even more powerful than ever before) by adding twelve more characters later in the year called Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 (2011)I would have been interested to see how big they would have made Juggernaut and how he would match up against the Hulk (or even Thor). What this does show you is that the Juggernaut's fame is not what it used to be like in the 90's despite appearing in the movie X-Men 3: The Last Stand (2006). One more thing that I can't stand about this game and continually get's my blood boiling...the Hulk still sports a silly belt buckle...UUGGHHH!!



Hulk vs Juggernaut!


Agree? Disagree? Let's hear it fanboys!!


Check out other "DEFINITIVE WRITE UPS" here:

Jack Kirby vs Alex Toth
http://hero-envy.blogspot.com/2013/06/jack-kirby-vs-alex-toth.html

Superman vs Captain Marvel

Thor vs Ulik

Hulk vs Thor
Hulk vs Hercules
Hulk vs Sub-Mariner



John "The Mego Stretch Hulk" Cimino - "Hero Envy" Central
John Cimino is a Silver and Bronze Age comic, cartoon and memorabilia expert that runs a business called "Saturday Morning Collectibles". He buys, sells and gives appraisals on everything pop culture, so if you got something special, let him know about it. He contributes articles to ALTER EGO, BACK ISSUE Magazine and THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR from TwoMorrows Publishing and has appeared on the AMC reality show Comic Book Men. He has written and starred in the "Hero Envy" webisode series, is the host of the Reckless Sidekick "Swass-Cast" and has contributed to the "Hero Envy" comic book. John also thinks he's really Captain Marvel, people just don't have the heart to tell him he's just an obsessed fanboy that loves to play superheroes with his daughter Bryn. Contact him at johnstretch@live.com or follow on twitter at @Elastic_Hulk and have some fun.

51 comments:

  1. Wow! This was a real pleasure to read! Hulk Vs. Juggernaut reminds me of heated playground discussions from my school days in the 70s and the continuation of the subject when my son discovered the arcade game in the 90s. I only wish I had been armed with all your knowledge back then. Thanks for the wonderful read!

    ReplyDelete
  2. This has to be the DEFINITIVE article on Hulk vs. Juggernaut ! GOOD WORK !

    Anthony

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  3. Well buddy, most of your article clearly describes your preference for Hulk, no mention you are handling only a single glass perspective that you want to see about your green behemont, so is fully debatable each of your arguments. I would debate each paragraph of you, but I'm tired of this controversy in forums battles. Only I dare to point out that you failed inconsistently to mention that the powers of Juggernaut unlike the Hulk, are of mystical and extradimensional origins, and by panel feats was proved that Cyttorak's energies = limitless strength and durability channeled via his avatar to call upon through the gem with the increase strength option until draw the limitless power of Cyttorak (from Crimson Cosmos). Therefore, in each of the battle panels can be explained perfectly why the magic powers of an extradimensional God (super strength and durability) via his avatar (the juggernaut) is superior than the strength of Hulk based on his gamma genes and uncontrollable emotion of his anger.

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    1. Just watch this and accept the truth about comics...

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGI1_rAoYPM

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  4. Sorry you feel that way. Although you think I'm being Hulk-biased, I can assure you that I'm not. I pride myself on these write ups as being honest as possible and if you read all the others on this blog you will see this. I'm just being truthful about what's on the paper. We fanboys of our heroes like to sometimes push our favorites to the top and try to convince others because we have such a "love" for that character. I get it, but it's not the truth. And regardless of what any Marvel Handbook or previous story says about a characters powers it doesn't matter in the context of a story that a writer chooses to use in a comic book slugfest. It's all fake anyways!

    I love all the characters and fights that I do write ups on. So I honor them by always basing it on the truth, there is no other way. And doing that surprises a lot of people, especially fanboys. I'm also friends with a lot of creators in the industry that if I can't answer a question or if there is a big debate on something, I go to them for the answers. Gage said to me that the Hulk was stronger and capable of stopping the Juggernaut, I didn't. So who are we to argue? Marvel pays Gage for his opinions so it's cannon. Until Marvel pays you for yours, then complain and use all the "comic/fantasy logic" you want but it doesn't matter. Sorry to be so blunt, but when I do a write up, it's all about writing with your head and not your heart.

    Glad you enjoyed it!

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    1. Part 1:
      You say you're not biased, but you clearly are. Hulk happens to win all the fights except vs. silver surfer where hulk clearly has no chance against. But you still try to make an argument for how hulk can win when the comics clearly show hulk can barely fight a depowered surfer, let alone a fully powered surfer. Hulk has shown that the best chance he stood against surfer was planet hulk and surfer was proving he was superior in strength and too much to handle for hulk. It takes a distraction for hulk to actually land a punch and surfer to stop fighting got hulk to start pounding on hulk. A fully powered surfer can easily handle any hulk no matter how angry hulk is.

      For hulk vs. juggernaut, juggernaut most likely starts out stronger than hulk and his durability is way better than hulks and on top of this, juggy has the only quality win between the two. Also, Juggernaut has limitless power due the cyttorak and hulk has only managed to stop juggernaut while he was enhanced as a horseman. Logic clearly shows juggernaut should win this fight but you say how hulk is superior to juggernaut.

      For Thor vs. silver surfer, your argument for why Thor would win contradicts other articles. Current surfer has shown to be more powerful than current Thor with better feats and for being able to beat down beta ray bill rather easily who is thors equal in every way. But you chose Thor because Stan lee had surfer say thors hammer is more powerful than the power cosmic despite feats proving otherwise. I normally wouldn’t have a problem with that until I read your hulk vs. Thor. Where’s the same logic you used for Thor vs. silver surfer on you hulk vs. Thor? If Stan lee said Thor was made to be stronger and more powerful than hulk, why wasn’t your answer Thor then? If Hercules is equal in strength to Thor in a comic written by Stan lee, then why isn’t Hercules your answer for hulk vs. Hercules? Hulk vs. namor, Stan lee showed that namor was superior to hulk in the comics he wrote. Why isn’t namor your winner? You seem to use Stan lee when it is convenient for you and not use Stan lee for you when it is convenient for you which only proves my point further on how bias you are.

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    2. Part 2:
      Thor has shown he is clearly leagues above hulk, but has to be depowered in his fights with hulk to only brute strength. Thor has yet to use a god blast which has been able hurt people with a much higher durability than hulk. Thor has yet to throw his hammer at several times the speed of light against hulk which would probably KO hulk. Thor has yet to use the weather of 1,000 worlds which has hurt glory, a sky father who durability far exceeds the hulk. We all know hulks recent fight with a sky father where, Zeus beats hulk, hulk is lying in pain for days. The one time Thor uses lightening, he KOs hulk. Thor has been able to destroy juggernauts helmet while hulk has yet to scratch it. The strongest hulk has ever lifted was support a mountain on his back while Thor has been able to lift the Midgard serpent which weighs more than the earth. Thor outclasses hulk in every way, but you still chose hulk. If Thor was creative enough, he could beat hulk by controlling his hammer mentally and beat the crap out of hulk or just fly up and unleash everything he has on hulk without hulk ever touching him.

      Hulk vs. namor, namor clearly has the advantage. If they battle in the water, namor is the clear winner and has shown in his fights with hulk. Namor has shown he gives hulk a battle on land and even weakened. But you pick hulk because he’s your favorite character despite Namor having the advantage.

      And seriously? You actually think hulk has a greater durability than surfer. Surfer flies through suns, supernovas, and black holes like there nothing. He survives beating from Thanos and cosmic threats like tyrant or the stranger. Hulk gets beat up be second rate bruisers like abomination and rhino. It’s hard to see how hulk has the greater durability. I even doubt hulk being stronger than surfer or Thor (Thor I already mentioned). Surfer has already out muscled hulk in planet hulk and caught his arms full swing in hulk #250. In Marvel it’s not the big 3, it’s the big 2. Hulk doesn’t belong in Thor or silver surfers league but gets put there due to popularity. After everything I said, it’s really hard to understand your logic when you decide who a winner is.

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    3. And someone is showing a Juggernaut bias.... get over it, sonny.

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    4. @ Anon 1-2 reply
      Hulk has beaten up Abomination and Rhino with ease. Hulk has more victories over Namor than Namor does. Surfer could only break Galactus's force field curse after he absorbed Hulk's power and needed Hulk to bail him out of a force field draining his energy when he was trapped by Skrulls. Hulk counteracted a black hole in Defenders#3 and destroyed a entire universe in Incredible Hulk#126. Thor has beaten classic surfer, the fight was a reference toward classic Surfer vs classic Thor not the current versions. Hulk overpowered Hercules when Hercules teamed up with others to stop him.

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    5. This guy with all his "part 1" and "part 2" crap is the kind of fanboy who can't sleep at night when a comic story doesn't go his way. What a life he must have, I shudder thinking about it. All his facts are screwed up and totally one-sided. But I'm sure it is expected to be that way with someone with that kind of mentality. GET A LIFE!!

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  5. Why debate over Juggernaut's strength, Mr. Anonymous? Let's just see what Marvel has officially said on the subject: http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7703/juggernotstrongerjy8.jpg

    Marvel has never said that about the Hulk. What they have said about the Hulk is that he has the potential for unlimited strength. Marvel put a clear cap on Juggernaut's strength.

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  6. This is hands down the best Hulk v.s. Juggernaut article on the web. Great Job John. Im saving this in my favorites and gonna keep up with more of your work.

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  7. Great article. I was just looking for information on the 1985 fight, but enjoyed reading everything else. I wouldn't say this article is Hulk-bias, but I wouldn't say Horseman of War Hulk won the fight against Juggernaut. And I would actually say World War Hulk ran from Juggernaut in their fight in Xavier's mansion.

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  8. Great work! Even though you put it plainly (with articles from Marvel even), HULK HATERS will still not believe that HULK STRONGEST ONE THERE IS!! Keep up the great work!

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  9. Great article !! I have readed many different arguments about who would win, but you take it further, with good information. In my oppinion, Hulk "has" to be stronger because he is one of the most iconics characters in marvel universe, and cannot be another character stronger than him in the same universe, or he will lose popularity.
    But if we put them to fight toe to toe, in a desert planet, with no collateral damage... i think that juggernaut will win in the end.

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  10. I think Jugs is way over rated & always has been. Slow, clumsy & no fighting skills to speak of. He's still at the highest end of mortals due the magic of Cytorak, but I'd much rather have jugs after me than the hulk.

    Hulk is pretty over rated these days too, but I pretty much just ignore most new comics now.

    Almost any incarnation of Hulk ought be able to handle Jugs pretty easily, although the desired puch out should NEVER happen. Savage Hulk might actually fare the worst, being dumb enough to put himself in a position to loose, although savage hulk still ought to simply hurl jugs far enough away to stalemate/end the fight most of the time.

    Something to consider, however, is Jugs's force field, for total invulnerablility & untouchability. If the idiot actually used it intelligently for a change, he really could be dangerous to hulk.

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  11. Interesting e-mail that was sent to me. Well thought out and explained...


    The base level strength of both characters is incredibly inconsistent, even if you limit it to a specific incarnation, like classic Juggernaut, or Savage Hulk (which ppl keep forgetting is different...and usually weaker than Mindless Hulk). Considering these dramatic inconsistencies, it's probably best to just disregard this aspect of the fight, resulting in a long term fight (although, I'd say Hulk should START weaker than Juggernaut). While Hulk is better known for it, from what I'm hearing, it seems both characters can get stronger as the fight progresses (imo Hulk should end up stronger eventually) But, I digress. This limits the variables to Juggernaut's durability and the Hulk's Healing Factor. The Hulk's skin is most often shown to be impenetrable by bullets, and often anything softer than adamantium. In spite of this, Juggernaut is clearly the more durable of the two. However, what Hulk lacks in Durability, he makes up for with his Accelerated Healing, which seems to be even faster than Wolverines. This considered, any damage Juggs does to Hulk will likely heal in a matter of minutes, if not seconds, while Hulk wouldn't be able to do any damage to Juggs in the first place. You could argue that Juggs method is superior to the Hulks, but in reality they both achieve the same effect, and if anything, the added element of pain Hulk's relatively lesser durability allows could serve in the Hulks favor as it would cause him to become even more angry. All in all, I'd say they're pretty evenly matched. My personal favorite is the Hulk, so OBVIOUSLY, I'm gonna say I think the Hulk would win, but that's really just my opinion...oh, and Personally, I find more value in the character description than feats...or anything else really. I know you'll probably say if you make it about who the character is it will be too subjective, but better to be subjective and consistent than objective and dramatically inconsistent. Feats change on a regular basis and they always lead to the same questions of which version of the character are we using? Which events are we counting as cannon? Is this one event just bad writing? Does it matter if it is? And on, and on, and on, until the entire debate turns into nothing but name calling, and illogical arguments over the smallest details. While the details of the characters change all the time, who they are at their core almost always stays the same. And what powers define Juggernaut at his core? A force that can not be stopped, let alone harmed. And Hulk? A monster with strength fueled by a never ending rage, who will just keep coming back, no matter how many times you beat him down. Sounds like a perfect match up to me. It's similar to the question of what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object, which is why no half decent writer will ever give one an irrefutable victory over the other. And objectively speaking, that's exactly how it should be. Thanks for this write up, it's the best and most accurate that I've ever read on the subject.

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  12. Juggernaut would win in the fight if he smartly knocks out hulk before gets mad enough to do any damage to Jugs. Juggs will lose if he's the bad guy of the comic though. Someone always intervenes...

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  14. when the juggernaut took away the powers and x men returned it, the new juggernaut to remove the gem took a big jump.
    juggernaut has not been injured by the claws of wolverine.
    Juggernaut has withstood the blows of Mjolnir without showing damage.
    juggernaut easily defeated Thor ever.
    juggernaut not need to eat, drink or breathe. juggernaut then supports the vacuum of space.
    Juggernaut does not tire.
    juggernaut powers can not lose if not angry, and if hulk.
    Juggernaut is invulnerable to physical attacks.
    juggernaut has an impenetrable force field around it, which in itself increases its huge durability.
    If juggernaut might become injured, also has regenerative factor.
    juggernaut can be attacked mentally, but that has a helmet that protects it.
    juggernaut is functionally immortal. the aging process is completely halted and is immune to all toxins, poisons and diseases.
    Once Juggernaut begins to move in a certain direction, it is virtually impossible to stop. The only known examples that have managed to stop involving the participation of some mystical power, which is the only weakness of Juggernaut.
    As a result of his days in the military and his experience as a villain and hero the Juggernaut is a formidable melee combatant, using his style seems more like street fighting and but has great technique, allowing you to make the most of their great strength .
    Potentially the Cyttorak Gem Ruby or have provided and may provide certain capabilities that are unknown to the Juggernaut, he usually only exploits its virtually limitless energies on increasing his incredible physical power, but also gives the gem magic skills as amended the size of the area, increasing its size, tracking, levitation, energy absorption, energy projection, and creating portals. Cain accidentally and in some cases could make use of some of these skills.

    Juggernaut show during his fight with Nightmare various magical abilities, such as throwing energy beams and invoke powerful spells that allowed him to confront the powerful entity
    REASONS FOR THESE FEW Juggernaut is able to beat HULK

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    1. LOL!! This guy is a joke. Read this blog buddy and understand that Hulk is the strongest one there is...not the Juggernaut...what a blind fool.

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    2. just like guides so says this blog? , Juggernaut has TOTAL invulnerability to physical damage only if using magic can be hurt , in Incredible Hulk # 172, Juggernaut tells him that his attacks become weaker while still fighting while Juggernaut grow , almost broke her neck, throw Hulk to save the juggernaut away when Juggernaut going to attack again Hulk , Xavier Crarles so paralyzed his mind, Hulk , that is so powerful this is not a demonstration of to win, Juggernaut only weights of 900-1900 pounds. In Incredible Hulk # 402, Hulk juggernaut overcame the whole battle , since there was no one to " save" the unfortunate Hulk. In Incredicle Hulk # 456-57 . War Hulk , with "power up " because it had celestial technology, I take off my helmet and was beheaded ( kill) . Juggernaut could regenerate when in skeletal state, as demonstrated against D ` Spayre , obviously would survive . In World War Hulk : X -Men # 3, World War Hulk ( one of the strongest incarnations of Hulk) Juggernaut will face a "standard " as anyone else who exceto Sentry , humiliatingly hit him , and pushing each other says Juggernaut that has always won in battle, not something that Hulk refuses and begins to be pushed back. Charles Xavier Juggernaut distracts telling me to stop, to tear down the foundations of the mansion , the Juggernaut turns head and Hulk, which sees no other way out, cowardly decides not to continue with the fight and the momentum of Juggernaut fail to send to a river. As I said on the Juggernaut "standard" Juggernaut in other comics, like in his fight against Thor when he was 8th day, Cyttorak had increased the powers of Juggernaut while he beat Thor very quickly. Juggernaut possessed by the entity known as the Trion (Trion-Juggernaut) is physically capable of hitting even across dimensions, crushing and breaking down dimensional barriers, breaking through a pure stroke through space / time itself. The Trion just use the incredible power that provides Cyttorak!. Hulk has been hurt by the Mjolnir, adamantium claws of Wolverine, Captain America's shield. All this has not made the slightest nie damage Unstoppable Juggernaut.

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    3. One of the funniest posts on here.

      This guy is an idiot.

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  15. You just have to give this fight to the Hulk. Despite Juggernaut's armor, the Hulk's strength will eventually overcome it.

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  16. Juggernaut is losing this one, no doubt in my mind.

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  17. I got Hulk in this one all the way. Juggernaut is not as strong as the Hulk and eventually Juggs will go down. The Hulk has had him on the ropes before by his punches, so there is no doubt in my mind the Hulk can hurt him...and stop him again.

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  18. I always thought that Juggernaut was overrated. What has he really done? More hype than anything else.

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  19. While Juggernaut had a shot at beating the Professor Hulk as he did in Hulk #402, that would have never happened to the Savage Hulk from Hulk #172. Funny how people never point this out. The Savage Hulk was way superior than the Professor Hulk ever was.

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  20. Everyone seems to mistake the Juggernaut's magical forward momentum as his physical strength. This is a big misunderstanding in how the Juggernaut's powers actually work. While he is physically strong and peers among the strongest including Hulk, Thor, Hyperion, Gladiator and Hercules. He is not stronger than any of them, much less the Hulk who I believe is the strongest Marvel character. What empowers Cain is the power of Cyttorak, there is nothing physical about it.

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  21. Upper scale feats comparisons are basically silly. In universe, they are both absolutely top tier physical threats, who can and have been taken seriously by the most powerful Earth side powers.

    A fight between Hulk and Juggernaut is basically symbolic. The winner will be the one who the writer can craft a reason for victory. That can be in the form of the will to win of the fighter, a story reason for the victory, or a more ephemeral thematic point. The Hulk might get angry, or he might not be properly amped up to fight. Juggernaut might be weakened through his connections to Cytorrak being messed up, or be amped up and end the fight quickly. Hulk might be suffering plot complications impeding his strength. One or both might have temporary power-ups.

    The reason for the victory is going to be in the story, rather than the power set.

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  22. http://www.comicvine.com/marvel/4010-31/forums/juggernaut-vs-thor-what-happened-1536789/#0

    juggernaut vs thor !

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  23. I think the Hulk should win this one the majority of the time. Juggernaut's force field can only hold off the Hulk's rage-induced strength for so long, then it's eventually going to end with the Hulk standing alone.

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  24. Oh, man that is some serious bias. I'm very disappointed, I used to respect your blog.

    First that World War Hulk: X-Men #3 battle,....its extremely clear that Hulk was losing ground. You really went out of the way to explain away the obvious. Trying to get the author to back you up and then taking his obvious unwillingness to outright pick a side (no one ever does that since the first Hulk-Thor match-up,....it's bad for business) as some type of proof that Hulk deserves a "Win",...that was just the lame.

    Then there's the issue of "If Hulk could have stopped Juggernaut in that battle why does he need to BFR him?". He sure didn't BFR Colossus because he could overpower him. Hulk couldn't permanently beat Wolverine due to healing so he BFR him as well. See the parallel? Can't beat him,...BFR.

    I could put the author's quotes further against your biased conclusion. Let's pretend that Hulk did stop Juggernaut and that wasn't actually pre-walking or something. Then the author tells you "I don't know how long he could stop him" which is largely the same as "he couldn't stop him forever". Well if Hulk's power is to get stronger you have to conclude that he either can't get stronger fast enough (to match Juggernaut) or he simply can't get strong enough (to match Juggernaut). The author was obviously trying to not pop your fan-boy bias, but both the pics in that issue as well as his words state that Hulk cannot stop Juggernaut.

    Same with Hulk #172. There's just nothing in that comic to suggest that Hulk could hurt Juggernaut in any way. Hulk states "Hulk always gets back up" (after getting knocked down) and is then sent flying again from what looks like being overpowered. Prof X happens to stop by and save the Hulk. Hmmmm outside force again,....that seems to happen a lot when Hulk fights Juggernaut.

    Then there's other indirect comparions. Rogue (50T) hitting Juggernaut and not even making him flinch; Thor vs Juggernaut where Thor can't hurt him at all; Zeus (sky-father) beating the holy hell out of Hulk in pure strength. Zeus = skyfather. Cytorrak = Skyfather. Want more? Thanos knocks the Hulk around but gets fried by Odin. Hulk consistently loses to Silver Surfer. Surfer gets one-shotted by Odin.

    In durability, this isn't close. I seriously can't recall Juggernaut (at full power) ever being phased by anything physical other than Celestial Tech War Hulk (Celestial > SkyFather so don't go there please). Not Colossus, not Rogue, not Hulk. Even Thor's hammer couldn't do anything until he warped some of his power away. In contrast, Hulk's by TKO by Iron Man, near-TKO by Thor (hammer to the head in Hulk Annual has hulk lying on the ground pretty limp except for one arm trying to push him up.), hurt by villians like Ironclad, heroes like Thing, Namor,...sure Hulk wins, but he feels it. Juggeranut doesn't. Vs Wolverine - I don't think that he's ever even scratched the Juggernaut and depending on what decade he's ranged from slight scratches to ripping the Hulk apart.

    In terms of strength,...well that forward momentum = force = strength. Those concluding that "it's magic" and somehow doesn't count is ridiculous. The magic generates force which exceeds everyone else's as displayed time and time again. Juggernaut can walk through stuff that Hulk has to exert to the max to push through. I'm sorry, that picture in WWH is extremely clear that Hulk was losing ground and of course, had to BFR him since he couldn't win.

    That really sucks that you somehow concluded the Hulk as having any chance while simultaneously believing yourself to be unbiased. Please revisit your "facts" because this is a whole different weight-class for your beloved Jade gaint. You're good at what you do, but you really need to double check your work here. Please repair your reputation.

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    1. Thanks for the comment. I think you're wrong when you call me a fanboy of the Hulk because I'm a fanboy of all the characters in comics. As for the "Author" Christos Gage...I know the man personally so it's not my interpretation. But I have a feeling none this will change your mind but I hope you keep reading because I got some fun stuff coming up.

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    2. Well hold on now,...you haven't addressed anything that I've written. And nothing that I've written should lead you to interpret that "none of this will change my mind". My post was "evidenced based" as much as is possible in comics.

      And what does knowing Christos Gage have to do with justifying your claim? The words, as you've written them, justify my conclusion more than yours. Perhaps you left out some relevant parts of a conversation,...?

      I probably shouldn't have reverted to name calling, but I'm still having trouble seeing you as unbiased when you can't see that Hulk was plainly getting pushed back. Also, the pic of Hulk giving Juggy a fisted backhand in #172 was really the essence of that fight - Juggernaut was completely unphased but each time he hit the Hulk, the Hulk went flying.

      The only thing that makes them look anytype of even is the Professor Hulk vs white T-shirt Juggernaut fight. Hulk lost one of those and was possibly winning one, but as you pointed out, if any Hulk was going to beat Juggernaut it shouldn't have been Professor Hulk. So yes, I apply a low credibility weight to that fight and I really don't think that you have any evidence to the contrary.

      Bottom line, I don't think that you have any evidence that can show Hulk hurting Juggernaut or overpowering Juggernaut in any way; not even WWH.

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    3. John, don't even waste your breath with this guy. No matter what you say or how many facts you point out he will not get over his Juggernaut fixation. He says that the Hulk didn't do anything to Juggernaut in the first fight in Hulk #172? In Hulk #404? In WW Hulk? What a complete moron! It's fanboys like this that give comic fans a bad name. He should be honored that you did such a great write up on the Hulk vs Juggernaut and it is unbiased and totally on point.

      Go away fanboy, live in your false dreams of Cytorrak. The Hulk is stronger and always will be and if I'm correct the Hulk is winning this rivalry 3 to 1 and if he can't hang with Juggernaut the comics seem to tell as different story. Hhahahahahahahahahahaha. This guy is a joke!

      Keep up the good work John and keep on writing the truth. Because fanboys can't handle the truth.

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    4. This guy here is the typical delusional fanboy who thinks he is smarter than the writers themselves. A Juggernaut fanboy troubled by his own logic and his own interpretation of what happens in the comic he reads. If he has so much of a problem with his Juggernaut not being stronger than the Hulk then maybe he should write for Marvel and make it happen.

      Oh wait....that will never happen.

      Move out of your mom's basement and get a life.

      Juggernaut is NOT stronger than the Hulk because Marvel won't permit it. And they are Marvel's characters and not yours, so you have no say. Just keep reading, worshiping and hoping. But in the end, everything will be exactly the way it is. Hulk is the strongest one there is. ;)

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    5. Wow you guys are awesome. It's really effective writing when neither of your have responded to anything I've written but manage to mash together "fanboy" and "mom's basement".

      The first brainiac rightly points out that Hulk 404 shows Professor Hulk doing some damage. Fine, I said he might have been winning that one. But I also said that Professor Hulk shouldn't have been the one to have any type of advantage over the Juggernaut, which the article's author pretty much feels the same if I've read his post correctly.

      And since neither the author or the two knuckleheads have responded to any of my interpretation of the evidence I am going point by point. Obviously I'm just going to illicit more fanboy comments from Thing #1 and Thing #2 and they'll probably also have nothing to respond on a point-by-point basis.

      Hulk #172 - Read it. True it's an inconclusive fight.Nevertheless I maintain that that the Hulk knockdown + completely ineffective backhand (illustrated in this post) + sent flying by a subsequent kick where the most direct evidence of relative power. Call it a draw if you want, I consider it a minor advantage to Juggernaut.

      Hulk #402: The story was "Hulk didn't know who he was fighting,...". I don't have the issue here, but there must have been a half dozen panels where Hulk is expressing how "I'm getting the feeling that this is no mere human". There was just no way that this was some type of stealth sucker punch TKO from someone that the Hulk thought was some regular 1500 lbs human. That battle was many pages long and "Professor" Hulk had a long time to snap out of it and realize that human's don't punch with Class 100 strength. If he couldn't do that then he's wasn't only clearly knocked out by the end of the fight, but he's also dumber than savage Hulk. Personally, I could care less about this fight, because Professor Hulk < Savage Hulk so it's not particularly meaningful.

      Hulk #404. Edge Hulk? Sure. Juggernaut's show on panel to go to his knees after a punch to the gut. As pointed out, Professor Hulk doing that to Juggernaut is a very low end showing for Juggernaut. Before you guys go crazy, Professor Hulk was shown to be relatively matched vs Wonderman right around that time (with some advantage to Hulk). Try looking up Captain Britain vs Juggernaut to see a ridiculously one-sided non-fight. Captain Britain was roughly in the same weight class as Wonderman, 95T vs 90T in same edition of Marvel Universe. Then there's the psychic backlash thing that makes it pretty hard to judge.

      Hulk #457: You have to know that Celestial tech makes this completely invalid. There's no way that should be part of the scoring any more than if Thor turned into Galactus and TKO'd the Hulk should count.

      WWH: X-Men #2. It's pretty clear that this is also an invalid fight, right? The whole conversation with Cytorrak about withholding power unless he's bad-a$$.

      WWH: X-Men #3. The main event. Hulks foot (CLEARLY!) giving ground + the author's stated words of "Don't know how long,..." the max rage, increasing strength, WWH could hold back Juggernaut + the need for BFR when Hulk's clear preference is to "SMASH". Someone please tell me how you can score a point for Hulk? Captain America or Spider-man could easily side-step any of Marvel's bricks and achieve the objective of talking to someone. Does that qualify as a win over the bricks? Seriously guys,....seriously John Cimino? C'mon you're better than that, aren't you?

      Hulk #602. Never read it. No opinion.


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    6. I'm not getting into this rant with you guys because it's obvious this Juggernaut fanboy will not accept fact and what the writers of the fights themselves has stated. John, I suggest you stop posting this guys comments because he tries to rant on about how he knows even more than you about this stuff. This is just one reason why this guy is a joke.

      It's so disheartening that fanboys hate to see their character on the losing end.

      After reading your synopsis of the fights (while laughing of course). I have to ask you this fanboy;

      What do you think of Tony Issabella's comments on the Hulk overpowering Juggernaut "physically" and throwing him into a mountain? You said the Hulk had nothing on Juggs yet the Hulk clearly overpowers him - and the writer backs up that fact!!!! Looks like a Hulk EDGE to me.

      Now Christoph Gage states that the Hulk did in fact stop the Juggernaut's charge - let me repeat - the Hulk did in fact stop the Juggernaut's charge, physically and yet you still babble on about how John has written this example poorly? Not to mention that the Hulk DID in fact BFR Juggernaut from the fight, so he did technically win. John even states this and does a very unbiased job of it.

      I think you should do THREE things from here on out;

      1.) Apologize to the author John and tell him he did a great job.

      2.) Thank him because he has put out some great articles that has entertained you.

      3.) GO AWAY!!!

      Once again, John, I think you should just ignore this fool and then he will go away and cower with his X-Men comics.

      Delete
    7. Now this was a very clever post.

      Thanks for the complements.

      Delete
  25. Everyone who says that Hulk is stronger than Juggernaut, indeed, in the deeds, because it is the consent of marvel, is the most beloved hero, and so much written about. And although it is true that Hulk is stronger than Juggernaut, Juggernaut is TOTALLY INVULNERABLE TO PHYSICAL DAMAGE, NEVER will suffer by the force of Hulk.

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    Replies
    1. And yet the Hulk has PHYSICALLY hurt him in the past. You don't have a clue, do you?

      Delete
  26. I saw that cartoon episode with Hulk fighting the Juggernaut and it was glorious. I'm sure Juggernaut fanboys are weeping on top of their X-Men comics lol.

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  27. "don't have a clue"
    "Juggernaut fanboys are weeping"
    "just ignore this fool and then he will go away and cower with his X-Men comics."
    "Move out of your mom's basement and get a life"

    Hulk fans sure are angry when it comes to the Juggernaut,...LOL

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  28. Juggernaut has no hope in this fight. Once the Hulk get's going, it's over.

    My money's on the Hulk.

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  29. EMH - "Strongest Hero there is". Nuff said,...

    Oops,...Juggernaut's not a hero.

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  30. With a name like "John "THE MEGO STRETCH HULK" Cimino" and twitter account of @elastic_hulk..of course, you are not Bias...

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    Replies
    1. I have to disagree. While the writer seems to be a Hulk fan per se, he tends to write these articles as unbiased as I've seen. So many of these fictional match-ups are so "pro" this hero or "pro" that one. This is the only site that I've seen it split down the middle. I tend to agree on most of his points but I think it's impossible to please everybody. I think he does a good job balancing it all out.

      Delete
    2. between achievements and popularity, Hulk wins.
      In powers, Juggernaut wins in the end .

      Delete